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December 11, 2014

Revisions to North Carolina and Gun Trust Transfers and Machine Gun Update Under the NFA

North Carolina NFA Trust and Gun Trust Update:

In Dec 2014, a Gun Trust transfer of a Machine Gun was rejected by the ATF when it stated "In Accordance with NC General Statute 14-409. Please remember that your Form 4 must state a reason other than for scientific and/or experimentation or "in accordance with 14-409" to comply with The January 11, 2013 email from Dana Pickles. We are in the process of verifying this and will update this blog if anything changes.

A recent email from Dana Pickles at the US Dept. Of Justice Bureau of ATF NFA Branch stated the following changes for North Carolina

Effective January 11 2013 the ATF is handling North Carolina transfers as follows:

Machine Gun transfers from a dealer to a dealer on a Form 3 no longer require a North Carolina Sheriff permission letter to possess the Machine Gun (MG)

From a Dealer to a Gun Trust using a Form 4.
If the Form 4 states that the MG is being "acquired for scientific research and/or experimentation" or "in accordance with 14-409", then you will still need North Carolina Sheriff permission letter to possess Machine Gun.

But, If the reason on your Form 4 states a reason OTHER than "in accordance with 14-409" or "for scientific and/or experimental use" then the North Carolina Machine Gun Letter or permission from the Sheriff is not required.

This means you should not state "in accordance with 14-409" or "for scientific and/or experimental use" on a Machine Gun transfer in the state of North Carolina

All other NFA transfers on a Form 4 - no longer require the reason to state "In accordance with 14-288.8" to approve the transfer.

September 12, 2014

What to do if the ATF rejects your Gun Trust Application to build a Machine Gun

You need to timely dispute the ATF denial. ATF is denying these applications under 922 (O) (1)

Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any person to transfer or possess a machinegun.

But if you read the section 922 (O) (2) (A), the exception, states that:
a transfer to or by, or possession by or under the authority of, the United States or any department or agency thereof or a State, or a department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or

An approved Form 1 is under the authority of the United States or a department or agency thereof.

Is ATF claiming they are not an agency or department of the United States? Interesting, but they would have a hard time explaining this.

If you would like help filing your appeal, contact us ASAP before your right to appeal the wrongful denial cannot be appealed.

Note and Disclaimer: This is unsettled law, and there is no guarantee that you will be approved in an appeal of your denail

September 11, 2014

ATF Approves some Form 1 to Make Machine Guns by a Gun Trust and then Rescinds the Approval

We understand that ATF has approved a number of applications to permit Gun Trusts to manufacture machine guns and then rescinded the tax stamp to make the machine gun.

Many others have reported to us today that their Form 1 was disapproved by the ATF with the following reason:

Reasons For Disapproval
THE GUN CONTROL ACT OF 1968 (GCA), AS AMENDED, PROHIBITS ANY PERSON FROM POSSESSING A MACHINEGUN NOT LAWFULLY POSSESSED AND REGISTERED PRIOR TO MAY 19, 1986. SEE 18 U.S.c. § 922(0). THE GCA DEFINES THE TERM "PERSON" TO "INCLUDE ANY INDIVIDUAL, CORPORATION, COMPANY, ASSOCIATION, FIRM, PARTNERSHIP, SOCIETY, OR JOINT STOCK COMPANY." SEE 18 U.S.c. § 921(A)(1). PURSUANT TO THE NFA, 26 U.S.c. § 5822, AND IMPLEMENTING REGULATIONS, 27 C.F.R. § 4 79.105(A), ATF MAY NOT APPROVE ANY PRIVATE PERSON'S APPLICATION TO MAKE AND REGISTER A MACHINEGUN AFTER MAY 19, 1986.

THE FACT THAT AN UNINCORPORATED TRUST IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE DEFINITION OF "PERSON" UNDER THE GCA DOES NOT MEAN THAT AN INDIVIDUAL MAY AVOID LIABILITY UNDER SECTION 922(0) BY PLACING A MACHINEGUN "IN TRUST." CONSEQUENTLY, IN TERMS OF AN UNINCORPORATED TRUST, ATF MUST DISREGARD SUCH A NON-ENTITY UNDER THE GCA AND CONSIDER THE INDIVIDUAL ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE TRUST TO BE THE PROPOSED MAKER/POSSESSOR OF THE MACHINE GUN.

It would seem that the ATF does not consider their approval to be governmental authority. The personal possession has an exception that deals with machine guns under the authority of the government.

If you received an approval and it was receinded and would like to explore your options please contact us.

May 15, 2014

Did ATF Accidentally Open the Machine Gun Registry for Gun Trusts

Based on the ATF letter requiring NICS checks for Trusts, the ATF may have accidentally opened the registry for new Machine Guns when registered in the name of a trust which is not a person under the GCA.

The Prince Law Blog quotes the same letter I wrote about a few days ago where the ATF determined that "Unlike individuals, corporations, partnerships, and associations; unincorporated trusts do not fall within the definition of "person" in the GCA." And therefore, as a result,

Because unincorporated trusts are not "persons" under the GCA, a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) cannot transfer firearms to them without complying with the GCA. Thus, when an FFL transfers an NFA firearm to a trustee or other person acting on behalf of a trust, the transfer is made to this person as an individual (i.e., not as a trust). As the trustee or other person acting on behalf of the trust is not the approved transferee under the NFA, 18 U.S.C. 5812, the trustee or other person acting on behalf of a trust must undergo a NICS check. The individual must also be a resident of the same State as the FFL when receiving the firearm.

So, ATF, trying to be cute and find a way to require NICS checks without Congressional action, declared trusts not to fit the definition of a "person" under the GCA. No big deal, especially for us in Pennsylvania, as Pennsylvania Instant Check System (PICS) checks are already required for all NFA firearms, except silencers. But, not so quick...let's look at Section 922(o) of the Gun Control Act...

Section 922(o) provides:

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any person to transfer or possess a machinegun.
(2) This subsection does not apply with respect to-
(A) a transfer to or by, or possession by or under the authority of, the United States or any department or agency thereof or a State, or a department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
(B) any lawful transfer or lawful possession of a machinegun that was lawfully possessed before the date this subsection takes effect.

So, we have a prohibition on any "person" transferring or possessing a machinegun which was not lawfully registered before May 19, 1986. BUT, an unincorporated trust is not a "person" under the GCA, so this provision cannot apply to it.

In turning to the National Firearms Act, as amended, 26 U.S.C. 5801, et seq., we find that a "person" is defined as including a trust, pursuant to 26 U.S.C. 7701. Yet, there exists no 922(o)esque provision in Section 5801, et seq.

Therefore, pursuant to 26 U.S.C. 5812 and 5822, an unincorporated trust may lawfully transfer and make machineguns, as it is not a "person" for purposes of the GCA and Section 922 only applies to "persons" as defined by the GCA.


Before anyone rushes to complete a Form 1 to make a new machine gun, they should understand that the ATF will likely reject this and if they want to push the issue they should be expect to litigate the issue. Even if litigating there is no guarantee of prevailing.

That being said, I believe I will submit a Form 1 for permission to manufacture a new machine gun along with a memo regarding the issues so that the opportunity to litigate the issue would be available after an expected rejection.

March 28, 2014

Michigan (MI) What NFA Firearms can I own? Updated 3/28/14

Michigan NFA Class 3 firearms

There are several type of Title II firearms which are sold by Class 3 SOT dealers that are restricted by the National Firearms Act.

Each state can impose additional restrictions on the sale, purchase, and transfer of Title II firearms in addition to the compliance that is required with the National Firearms Act.

In Michigan you can own the following Title II Firearms that are regulated the the National Firearms Act:

Machine Guns
Suppressors
Any Other Weapon (AOW) (only some)
Destructive Devices (DD)
Short Barreled Shotguns (SBS)  (See Below but Legal as of 3/28/14)
Short Barreled Rifles (SBR)  (See Below but Legal as of 3/28/14)
In Michigan you cannot own the following NFA restricted items.
 some AOW's like Tasers or Stun Guns by private citizens whether or not they are class 3 items or the individual has a CCW permit
The Michigan State Police put together a legal update on SBR and SBS which describes the differences between those over 26 inches and those under 26 inches.

Continue reading "Michigan (MI) What NFA Firearms can I own? Updated 3/28/14" »

October 18, 2013

Hawaii (HI) What NFA Firearms can I own?

Hawaii NFA Class 3 firearms
There are several type of Title II firearms which are sold by Class 3 SOT FFLs that are restricted by the National Firearms Act.

Each state can impose additional restrictions on the sale, purchase, and transfer of these Title II firearms in addition to the compliance that is required with the National Firearms Act.

In Hawaii you can own the following items that are regulated the the National Firearms Act

Individuals cannot own any NFA firearms which are kept within HI.
State and county law enforcement officers who are not convicted of an offense involving abuse of a family or household member under 709-906 can own and possess Silencers and Machine Guns and Short Barreled Shotguns (SBS) and
Short Barreled Rifles (SBR)
.
In Hawaii you cannot own the following NFA restricted items.
Machine Guns
Silencers*
Machine Guns*
Short Barreled Shotguns (SBS)*
Short Barreled Rifles (SBR)*
Any Other Weapon (AOW)
Destructive Devices (DD)

Follow this link to find out more about Hawaii and NFA restrictions on Class 3 Firearms
Updated 10/18/13

March 19, 2013

Are Machine Guns Legal in Washington State?

Mark Knapp a Washington Gun Trust Lawyer® and firearms lawyer has written a blog that deals with the possibility of obtaining a legal machine gun in the State of Washington.

Generally Machine guns have been illegal to import or transfer in Washington State since 1994 and then only those that were manufactured and registered with the NFA before the 1985 ban were permitted. Those who owned them prior to the 1994 Washington ban could keep them.

There seems to be some ambiguity in the law which may permit certain people to obtain certain Machine Guns. It would not be an easy process and would involved a WRIT OF MANDAMUS which Mark called a long shot.

If you are interested in this you may want to ready his blog on Machine Guns in Washington may be legal

If you are in Washington and are looking for a Gun Trust for your firearms Contact Us.

April 20, 2012

Modernizing your M16: Starting With a Pre 86 Transferable Machine Gun

A few weeks ago I purchased a fully transferable M16. Many of our clients have asked me to post some pictures of what this gun is being built into. Almost every replaceable part has been upgraded to the latest modern version while still keeping it legally transferable as a Pre 86 Machine Gun.

One of the first things we did was to replace the stock with a high-tech anti recoil Israeli Stock.
M16stock.jpg


Next build a modern upper with a Side charger much like you would see on a AK47 so that you do not have to take your eye off the scope to load a bullet.


M16SAR.jpg

Then we build a 10.5 " 556 Upper and a 9.5 Inch 300 Blackout Upper.  Until my suppressors arrive we added what appears to be a flame thrower.  Better not stand to close to the end of this barrel or you might get burned.  Actually its suppose to help with rise by allowing gas to be directed from the left and right.  I do not think this will be necessary with the 300 Blackout but on the 556 it help with the natural rise you find in firing a machine gun.

M16-rise.jpg
Then to top everything off we added a holographic scope and a 4x optic that can be flipped out of the way.  So here is a picture of it in a completed form.  Now all I need is the ATF to return my Form 4 so I can take it home.

M16.jpg I would like to thank Lee at GPI Custom Gunworks for building his version of a perfect transferable M16. 


March 27, 2012

Can I Purchase a Machine Gun with a Gun Trust?

Yes, you can purchase a machine gun with a Gun Trust but you cannot purchase a new machine gun. (As long as it is purchase in a state where they are permitted) You may be wondering what the difference between and old machine gun and a new machine gun. As of May 1986 individuals, Trusts, and business entities can only purchase machine guns that were made and registered as transferable prior to May 19th of 1986.

A new M-16 can be purchased for $1200-1500, but can only be purchased by police or military, while a legally transferable pre 1986 Machine gun will cost you 10 times that amount.

So for those of you who are looking at a Gun Trust as a way to purchase an inexpensive machine gun, forget it. Not only is a machine gun expensive to buy, but its more expensive to feed. Many shoot 600-900 rounds per minute and the typical magazine will last a second or two.

March 14, 2012

Can I Make a Machine Gun using a NFA Gun Trust?

One of the most common questions or misconceptions is regarding the ability to make a Machine Gun by using a Gun Trust. While you can make a Machine Gun with a Gun Trust, the process or the cost is not what most would consider acceptable. First you are not making a machine gun as you might expect using an ATF Form 1 but you must first start with a legally transferable pre 1986 full auto sear. This is in the 10-15K range and is by itself a Machine Gun. Now that you have a legal machine gun, you can modify almost anything and essentially create a new Machine Gun.

If you purchased a Pre 86 sear, you could change out the pins, add a left hand magazine release, change the trigger, and even build it into 300 blackout if you wanted. Once you were done, you would essentially have a new machine gun but it would be 10-15K more than what the police or military could purchase a current model.

So while you cannot technically "Make A Machine Gun" you can modify a legal transferable machine gun.

February 1, 2012

Bonnie and Clyde Thompson Machine Gun Sold for over $150,000

Thumbnail image for thompson-auction.jpgI knew this one would sell for a high price but had no idea that anyone would pay such a large amount of money for this Gun. While the gun sold for $130,000 there was a 17% buyers premium which brought the actual cost of the firearm to over $150,000.

September 19, 2011

PA Machine Gun Shoot hosted by Joshua Prince

Prince Law Offices, P.C. will be hosting a machine gun shoot at Eastern Lancaster County Rod and Gun Club, which is located at 966 Smyrna Road, Kinzers, PA 17535 on October 22, 2011 starting at 11am. Everyone is welcome to attend. The only requirement is that you bring a driver's license and hearing and eye protection. All attendees will be required to sign a waiver.

There will be several dealers and manufacturers in attendance and which will have some unique firearms that you might not otherwise have an opportunity to shoot. One dealer will be bringing his KRISS .45 SMG, a Glock 18c, and some other fun toys. While you are welcome to bring your own firearms and ammunition, it will be up to the owner of the firearm as to whether he/she will permit you to use your ammunition in his/her firearm. The FFLs will be bringing ammunition for purchase, if you need additional or if they require certain types of ammunition to be used in their weapon systems.

While this event is free to all attendees, I am asking that you consider giving a donation to the Eastern Lancaster County Rod and Gun Club for their generous permission to use their range. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. To RSVP,


Joshua Prince, Esq.
Prince Law Offices, P.C.
646 Lenape Rd
Bechtelsville, PA 19505
610-845-3803 ext 81114
610-845-3903 (fax)
Joshua@PrinceLaw.com

July 22, 2011

Missouri (MO) What NFA Class 3 Firearms can I own?

NFA Class 3 firearms There are several type of Class 3 items that are restricted by the National Firearms Act.

Each state can impose additional restrictions on the sale, purchase, and transfer of class 3 firearms in addition to the compliance that is required with the national Firearms Act.

In Missouri you can own the following items that are regulated the the National Firearms Act

Machine Guns
Short Barreled Shotguns (SBS)
Short Barreled Rifles (SBR)
Any Other Weapon (AOW)
Silencers
In Missouri you cannot own the following NFA restricted items.
Destructive Devices (DD)
Follow this link to find out more about Missouri and NFA restrictions on Class 3 Firearms

<strong>NOTE:</strong> Starting 8/28/2011 you will be able to use a NFA trust to purchase NFA firearms in Missouri without the need of a C & R, FFL, or use of a Corporation or LLC.
April 12, 2011

Owning a Machine Gun in California

machine-guns.jpgOne of the Gun Trust Lawyers® we work with in California has written an article on owning a Machine Gun in California which deals with the requirements and process that is involved.

Not only is there a special application for the California Permit but one needs to establish good cause that they have a clear and convincing reason and there is a bona fide market or public necessity for the issuance of the permit. Kevin goes through the 8 valid reasons defined in 11 CCR 4128(b). All of the reasons that would apply to an individual require that you have a valid FFL except for (4) collectors of destructive devices.

Unless you are a police department, branch of the government, in the entertainment industry you will need to come up with a clear and convincing commercial need for the machine gun permit.

If you are interested in owning a Machine Gun in California, it will not be an easy task, but you should discuss your situation with California Gun Trust Lawyer® Kevin Thomason to see if you might qualify for the narrow reasons which are allowable under California Law.

January 11, 2011

Oklahoma Full Auto Shoot & Trade Show - June 25th & 26th

It may not be as big as Knob Creek, but looks like fun if you are in the area. Check out the Oklahoma Full Auto Shoot & Trade Show