While a Gun Trust or other forms of ownership can allow you to purchase Silencers or other Title II firearms in states where they are legal, it is important to realize that just because you or a trust own a Silencer or other Title II firearm, you do not have the ability to take those items to states where they are illegal to possess.
For example silencers are not legal to purchase, own, transfer, or use in Illinois. Recently an individual was arrested for threatening police and possession of an illegal silencer. The silencer may have been legally purchased but its presence in Illinois is a crime and will make the silencer illegal.
While it sounds like Gali, the individual with the illegal silencer, is in a lot of trouble, the additional penalties for possession of a silencer could add up to more than 10 years in jail and a $250,000 penalty plus seizure of the vessel (his car) that the illegal silencer was found in.
While most states have legalized the possession and use of silencers there are a few states where they are not legal. This silencer may have belonged to someone else or purchased without paying the required transfer fee of $200. Because all silencers are registered with the BATFE, the legal owner of the silencer could also find himself in trouble for the improper transfer of a silencer which has the same penalties discussed above.
One of the big downsides to purchasing a silencer as an individual is that you are the only one who can have access to and use the silencer. A Gun Trust can help you by allowing people to use or be in possession of the silencer without breaking the law. It is important to remember that a Gun Trust does not allow you or others to bring otherwise legal firearms into a state where they are not permitted.
One way to protect yourself from the actions of others in regards to using a Gun Trust to purchase NFA firearms is to make sure that the other authorized users do not have the ability to make purchases without your permission. Many traditional trusts and some Gun Trusts are not designed to help with the potential unknown violations by others involved with your Gun Trust. If your gun trust contains the Gun Trust Lawyer registered trademark then your trust will have been setup to deal with these issues by giving you the flexibility to create users who cannot purchase and users that can purchase Title II firearms.
The ATF told attendees at the NSSF Import/Export conference that they had hired 12 temporary research assistants and a supervisor to review Form 4 and Form 1 applications for mistakes before the examiner gets them. (Reported by Joshua Prince at the Prince Law Firm a PA Gun Trust Attorney)
Back in April the backlog on Form 1 and Form 4 transfers was around 43000. The additional staff has almost doubled the number of transfers per month that the agency can handle. The ATF is also asking Congress to use part of the revenue generated to help update their antiquated systems as currently the taxes collected from the Form 4 and Form 1 applications is deposited into the Treasury's account where the ATF has no access.
Apparently if a FFL submits a Form 1 or Form 4, their applications are put in a special folder for special processing because the background of the FFL has already been checked.
UPDATE FOX news is the first major network to confirm this story we began discussing over 8 hours ago.
I received numerous emails about the UN Treaty not being approved. The Examiner and TheGunMag.com have also reported that It was announced this morning that the US will not sign the UN Arms Treaty in its current form. While it is possible that a modified treaty could be singed at a later time it appears that the intense public awareness of the restrictions on our Second Amendment rights has cause such outreach by firearms rights supporters that the Treaty will not be signed in its present form.
As of this afternoon, I am seeing no major media outlets reporting this fact and some even alluding that it will still be passed. Will it be passed or not? We will know if a few days. Below I have complied a few sources on the story and even read through the proposed treaty which I found to be very circular and while supporting gun rights of states, would appear to require states (countries) to pass laws that would not permit misdirection or misuse of firearms by others. How else can you do this other than to ban certain small arms.
Even if this issue fails to pass this week, I am certain that we will see this issue again.
Update GunMag.com is also reporting that Alan Gotlieb who is at the United Nations in NY said the government will not sign the document.
The Seattle Times is reporting that the U.N. Treaty is unlikely to curb U.S. gun Rights. If passed this article appears to be an effort to distract from the true nature of the Bill. A misleading article at best.
The UN has a history of pursuing disarmament including firearms owned by individuals. While the text appears to talk about gun rights, it talks about them in terms of the states rights or collective self-defense rights and not at the individual level as we have under the Second Amendment. The UN has described its efforts on their own website as wanting to advance the restrictions and availability of ownership of small arms by the individual and destruction of surplus state (government-owned) weapons.
The Preamble states "Underlining the need to prevent, combat and eradicate the illicit trade of conventional arms and to prevent their diversion to illegal and unauthorized end use, such as terrorism and organized crime."
The inherent rights of all States to individual or collective self-defense;
(NOTE these are rights of the state and not the individual)
Goals and objectives include avoiding international trade in arms. While this treaty would apply to larger arms like ships, tanks, aircraft, it would also apply to small arms and light weapons.
Each country would be required to create a national control system (registry) and would prohibit the transfers what would violate the treaty, would be a violation if they the arms were eventually transferred to an inappropriate personal or country, or were used for genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes...
The UN document is similar to many UN treaties and appears to be so circular in nature that while allowing legal uses and each state to make their own rules, seem to restrict the rules that can be made by agreeing that no states (country) rules would possibly allow for an illegal or improper use of the arms to be regulated.
Basically you can't own an AR15 because someone might sell one to a drug cartel that might do something wrong with the firearm. As such those firearms would not longer be permitted to be sold. This type of circular logic would have no end and surly end up eliminating all or most future firearms transactions.
If the treaty is signed what will happen? The treaty would go into force until the Senate voted to approve or deny the treaty. It would take 66% of the senators (67 Votes to Approve it). While this may be a problem, a Signed treat would be enforced until it was brought up for a vote. Some questions whether there would be enough senators to bring the treaty up on a vote.
Does anyone really think that laws keep criminals and terrorist from obtaining firearms?
To read a copy of the UN Treaty read the rest of this article.
This week I have received two trusts from potential clients who sent them in for review that were invalid. Even if ATF approved a Form 1 or Form 4 transfer to these trusts, anyone in possession of the TItle II firearms would be illegally in possession of them. Once person already had 3 items in their possession and 2 more on the way.
Both trusts claimed to be gun trusts but were obviously not intended for firearms much less those subject to the NFA and contained many of the traditional language found in a trust designed for managing financial assets.
While in some ways the language seemed to be slightly better than a Quicken trust (except for the fatal flaws that made them defective) they only briefly mentioned the NFA or guns in the trust and gave no guidance based on state or federal restrictions of firearms based on the geography of the transfer or the legal status of the people involved with the trust or whether the beneficiary was legally able to be in possession of the firearms based on the unknown circumstances of the future. While all of this may sound complicated, a real Gun Trust like one provided by a Gun Trust Lawyer® will deal with all of these issues and more.
Our trusts have been reviewed by hundreds of estate planning and firearms lawyers. If you have a "free gun trust", "Gun Store Trust" or trust that you are concerned may not protect your and your family, send it to us and we will review it and let you know what type of problems you may face. Normally we charge for reviewing other trusts, but for the next 30 days we will review them free of charge under the federal laws.
Some common things to be concerned about.
1) I got my trust off the internet
2) your trust references laws of another state
3) your trust is less than 15 pages
4) your trust did not come with a detailed manual on how to make purchases or who can use the items
5) your trust does not contain the Registered trademark Gun Trust Lawyer®
Recently I was interviewed by Sheldon Gardner of the St. Augustine Record regarding an article about the sheriff deciding not to sign Form 4's for TItle II transfers: Want to buy a silencer, sawed-off shotgun or explosives? Sheriff will no longer help.
While sheriffs all over the country are refusing to provide the CLEO sign off required for individual ownership of Title II firearms using ATF Form 4's and ATF Form 1's, the St. Johns Sheriff is one of the few who does not appear to be trying to stop ownership. The Sheriff's office is recommending using a NFA Gun Trust. Sgt. Chuck Mulligan stated that "In no way shape or form is the sheriff stopping them or hindering them from buying these items."
As Gun Trust Lawyers®, we have provided many residents of St. Johns count and residents of almost every state Gun Trusts to help them protect their privacy, avoid the CLEO and fingerprint requirements, and help manage their NFA and regular firearms during their life and upon their passing. Many police officers in these areas have also used our NFA Gun Trusts to acquire Title II firearms for personal and work related use.
Many initially appeared outraged by the Sheriff's position but if you read the full quote it is clear they are recommending a gun trust. Below is the full Facebook posting:
The National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1936 has been the primary source of federal regulation for "class 3" weapons such as automatic firearms, silencers, short-barreled shotguns and explosives. While owning a firearm is a fundamental right for a United States citizen and is recognized by the 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution, the Sheriff will only participate in the application process when a St. Johns County resident is applying for ownership of an automatic weapon. While the Sheriff has participated in this process in the past, he will no longer consider an application for silencers, short-barreled shotguns, explosives, etc.
Alternatively, a citizen may create what is commonly referred to as a "NFA Gun Trust" where the possession of prohibited NFA weapons (class 3) may be obtained. Although this is a legal instrument which must be properly drafted to be valid, there is no requirement for the Sheriff to participate in the application process. While the Sheriff's Office cannot offer or provide any advice on creating such a trust, I would invite you to utilize the many associations and/or lawyers that specialize in 2nd Amendment issues.
There are many advantages to using a NFA Gun Trust and the CLEO signature is one of the least significant. A property prepared trust should be designed to hold all of your firearms and deal with issues in different states as well as guide you on the proper way to purchase and use the firearms.
WHAT IS AN NFA GUN TRUST?
NFA firearms (also called NFA weapons) are certain guns and accessories regulated by the National Firearms Act. They are sometimes incorrectly called "Class 3 weapons." The confusion over the Class 3 terms is related to the licence that is required for a dealer to possess to sell Title II Firearms. NFA firearms include all fully automatic and select fire weapons, short-barreled rifles and shotguns and sound suppressors (silencers). NFA firearms include things that you might not expect.
Example: Remember the Hi-Standard .22 Derringer It is an ordinary "garden variety" pistol. Pair it with a wallet holster and it becomes an NFA weapon. Many collectibles, including pistols with detachable shoulder stocks, such as the Artillery Luger and the "Broomhandle" Mauser are also regulated by the National Firearms Act.
Suppose that your father brought home a "deactivated" machine gun from World War II? Even though these "Deactivated War Trophies" are welded up and are incapable of firing, they are still NFA weapons.
You can lawfully own NFA firearms, as long as they are permitted under state law. You have to register them with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives ("BATFE") and pay a $200 tax on each one. Unless you acquire them through a trust or other entity, you have to obtain the consent of your chief of police. If you create a special type of trust, no local approval is required. These trusts have other significant advantages as well.
An NFA Gun Trust, sometimes called a "Gun Trust" or a "Class 3 Trust" is a type of revocable trust that you create specifically to acquire NFA weapons and to hold your other firearms. It differs substantially from an "ordinary" revocable trust.
An NFA Gun Trust makes it easier and more private to transfer not only NFA firearms, but any guns, to your family members if you die or become disabled. Assets in a trust pass directly to your beneficiaries outside of the probate system. There is no public record of what you own.
An NFA Gun trust can be an irrevocable or revocable, but an "ordinary" estate planning trusts should not be used to acquire and hold NFA firearms. NFA trusts must have special provisions that deal with firearms.
Example: You want your twelve-year-old child to someday inherit your gun collection, including NFA weapons. An NFA trust provides a way to lawfully store them until your child is old enough to have them transferred to him or her.
We have lawyers in every state that we work with who have modified our trusts for your state's specific law. The local attorneys deal with state trust and firearms issues and we are here to support you with the federal issues and the NFA.
Our NFA trusts contain language which deals with unique provisions of each state's law. In addition to the Gun Trust documents, we provide you with detailed, plain English instructions showing you how to fund the trust, acquire NFA weapons as a trustee and administer the trust.
WHY DO I NEED AN NFA TRUST?
No Signature Required
In order for an individual to lawfully acquire an NFA weapon, his or her CLEO - police chief or first selectman must sign a form called a "BATFE Form 4." Many CLEO's are reluctant, or refuse, to sign the form either for political reasons or concern about potential liability. If your chief refuses to sign, and you do not have an NFA trust, you will not be allowed to purchase any NFA weapons.
A Class 3 license is a license that a dealer obtains to sell Title II Firearms. Many individuals incorrectly confuse the terms Class 3 and Title II. We even see some lawyers making the same mistake. Class 3 SOT is a license to sell. Title II is classification of firearm that a Class 3 SOT may sell.
Title II firearms include silencers, short barrel rifles or shotguns, machine guns, AOWs and destructive devices.
So the answer is no! You do not need a Class 3 license to buy a silencer or other Title II firearm unless you are a dealer and wanting to purchase them for resale. If your documents do not use the correct terms, the people who wrote them may not understand the NFA, ATF and issues relating to the purchase, possession, transfer, and use of Title II firearms.
A real Gun Trust like one created by one of our Gun Trust Lawyers® can easily be recognized because it will be protected by our Trademarks and Copyrights.
Recently Google Shopping updated its terms of service to not allow any of the following
Other prohibited categories
The following products are not allowed on Google Shopping:
- Guns, ammunition and knives
- Tobacco and cigarettes
- Traffic devices (Learn more)
- Products related to casino and gambling
- Products or digital goods that require additional software installation in order to be purchased.
- Products bundled with service plans. (Note: The only products that are allowed to be submitted with a service plan are mobile devices.)
The NSSF is reporting that
NSSF is attempting to reach Google to urge the company to reconsider this discriminatory policy that is hostile to the Second Amendment. We also plan to remind the company and emphasize that firearms cannot be purchased online and be transferred directly to the purchaser. A firearm that is purchased online must be physically sent from one federal firearms licensee to another, with the latter conducting the mandatory FBI background check on the purchaser (represented in person) and then transferring the firearm only after the purchaser has passed background check.
The company's new, anti-gun policy has rightly caused firearms owners to reconsider having Google be their search engine of choice. According to reports, the search engine Bing.com, for example, currently does not block firearms from appearing in shopping results.
Google's restrictive policy comes at a time when retailers and other online information resources have increased their content about firearms because of consumer demand. Fortunately, consumers have other online services to turn to instead of Google for their firearms information.
Yesterday I read on Military Times that the American Silencer Association recently met with some unnamed people in congress and visited the ATF. Below is a video of their trip. Warning its a little long at over 7 minutes and has a lot of unnecessary footage of doorways, buildings and walking. You can skip to 1:25 if you want to see where the content starts.
Joshua Prince wrote a little review of the video on his Pennsylvania Gun Trust Blog where he noticed something that I missed. While many have been talking about the ATF removing the CLEO requirement it has not happened yet. While the CLEO removal would be nice, many would not understand the full benefits if there was not a CLEO requirement for individuals.
Joshua points out that the ASA also points out that since individuals also require fingerprints, and photographs unlike Gun Trusts that it might be possible to start eFiling Form 4 Submissions in the near future. (For those who do not want to watch the 7 minute video, skip to 3 minutes and 4 seconds )
I do not expect either to happen anytime soon, but you never know. If you are looking for a Gun Trust Lawyer® Contact Us or call our office to begin the process of creating a NFA Gun Trust or Gun Trust.
I saw this several years ago at the SHOT Show and it looked very interesting. It looks like Defiance setup manufacturing in the US to be able to sell the silencer in the United States.
Nyon, Switzerland (July 2012) - DEFIANCE®, a manufacturer of optimized accessories for operators and professionals, announce the release of the first DEFIANCE® Suppressor designed for the use with the KRISS® Vector family of firearms and is compatible with all KRISS® SMG, SBR and SDP firearms (supports M16x1 LH threaded .45 ACP models).
The DEFIANCE® HPS 4GSK Cal. 45 ACP incorporates an internal baffle system consisting of two steel and three aluminum baffles strategically stacked to minimize sound
and maximize suppressor service life.
Constructed of T6 aluminum with a Type III MIL-SPEC black hard-anodize coating and tool
steel with a QPQ coating at the threaded end, the DEFIANCE® HPS highly resists scratching and corrosion. The suppressor body and internal systems are all CNC machined from high-grade aluminum and steel alloys for long term durability and long-life reliability.
Available in .45 ACP, the DEFIANCE® HPS 4GSK weighs just over a pound at 1.1 lbs. (500 grams) and is 7.7 inches in length (197.5mm) and 1.79 inches in diameter (45.5mm).
KRISS® Arms, an innovative Swiss-based global group, delivers proprietary technologies to the firearms industry enabling more efficient solutions, corresponding to the 21st century requirements for the global law enforcement, military and civilian markets. KRISS is headquartered in Switzerland, with production and operations in Switzerland, as well as in Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA.
We often get asked if one should put all of their firearms in a Gun Trust or not? Like most legal questions the answer is usually "it depends". All of our Gun Trusts are designed to hold all of your firearms and any real gun trust should be designed for all of your firearms.
With that being said we have seen many documents marketed as gun trusts or NFA gun trusts that are not really designed for NFA much less any firearm. Some which appear to be designed for firearms strictly limit the property or assets that they can hold to NFA firearms.
This is a mistake and any trust you use to hold firearms should be designed to hold all types of firearms, ammunition, and other firearms related items like scopes or optics.
If you think about it, the same decision-making process goes into the determination of whether a beneficiary ( example spouse, child, parent, friend) is appropriate for the gift of a Glock as a Machine gun or silencer.
It is not enough to vaguely mention firearms, guns or the NFA in the trust but every provision should be re-written to deal with firearms and not other types of property like a home, stock account, or car. You will not cause someone to break the law if you give them a bank account, but might do so with a gun.
Things to look for in a Gun Trust Lawyer®:
1) do they own guns and support 2A activities and rights?
2) Do they use the right terms and language? Someone who talks about Class 3 firearms or whose documents refer to them does not understand enough about the NFA to know the difference between the licences required to sell Title II firearms and the items that can be sold.
3) Are they primarily interested in selling you other legal services and using the concept of a gun trust to create a contact or sell other services?
4) Do they have support behind them?
5) Will your trust be valid if you move to another state?
6) Does you trust support authorized users in other states?
7) Can you Gun Trust be upgraded to provide multi generational and or asset protect without loss of your initial investment?
8) How much experience with Gun Trusts do they have?
9) Do they have both Criminal Law lawyers and estate planning lawyers who are familiar with the NFA and ATF?
10) Do they include unlimited support for the life of your involvement with the Gun Trust at no additional charge?
11) Do they have a comprehensive manual that covers all aspects of NFA firearms ownership, transfer, possession at no additional charge?
12) Do they write regularly on the NFA, changes with the ATF, and common issues that arise with the use, transfer, purchase, and possession of TItle II firearms?
Our network of Gun Trust Lawyers® does all of the above and you can tell if you are purchasing a Gun Trust from a lawyer we work with or whom has licensed our trusts by checking for our copyright on the trust you receive.
If you would like to know more about what a real Gun Trust Is? or What are the Benefits of a Gun Trust? Contact Us by using the form on this page, or by calling us.
We have over 200 lawyers in 43 states that we have worked with to create over 5000 Gun Trusts since we created the first trust gun trust. If you would like help contacting a Gun Trust Lawyer in your state, call or email us. Please note that the process is generally stated in our office as the federal issues are more complex than the minor state specific issues. Our support comes with both help on the state specific issues relating to trusts and firearms and the federal issues relating to the NFA and other firearms ownership transfer and possession.
We often get requests for referrals and while we keep the information on our clients confidential we recently had a client send us and email which they gave us permission to publish. Andrew originally purchase a trust from a local attorney because of a recommendation based upon price and it was not until months later that he found out about gun trusts and how a gun trust is very different from a regular trust.
Often times people will ask me, "How much money should I spend on a gun for self-defense?". I usually respond by asking, "How much is your life worth?". The implication is that one would typically want a good insurance policy if they are insuring something of great value & should not cut corners in an effort to save a few bucks. I should have applied the same principle to setting up my NFA Gun Trust.
I initially went with another law firm to draft my Trust because the price was very cheap & because the lawyer represented a known SOT/Class 3 dealer. The first Trust that was drafted for me was nothing more than a standard Trust. It was 3 pages long including the cover sheet & did not mention the NFA, ATF, Form 1, Form 4, Form 5, Form 20 or even that the items to be held by the Trust should not be accessible to "prohibited persons" or minors. I e-mailed Mr. Goldman of Law Office of David M. Goldman PLLC to inquire about having a true NFA Gun Trust drafted.
I received an e-mail that explained the differences between the Trust they offer & most other standard Trusts. The main thing that convinced me I should have gone with Law Office of David M. Goldman PLLC first was the following: "Most trusts name a "Successor Trustee" but provide no guidance on how to handle NFA firearms. In fact, most trusts instruct others to violate the law and place themselves, your family, and your beneficiaries in jeopardy of criminal prosecution and confiscation of the firearms.". This is because even with a Trust, the beneficiary must submit an ATF Form 5320.20.
After speaking with Mr. Goldman via telephone to provide him with some information, I received my NFA Trust within 4 days. I received an e-mail from a local attorney which included my NFA Trust in a PDF file. I quickly used the search feature in Adobe to search for the term "NFA". I was so relieved that not only was the NFA mentioned, it was mentioned 24 times in the 19 pages of the Trust itself. After I began reading the things it covered & explained, I felt a huge relief. It is so well written that I know I do not have to worry about my beneficiaries understanding what to do in the event of my passing. I simply had to print, sign & notarize it to execute it.
I could not be happier. Law Office of David M. Goldman PLLC has been very easy to speak with about the few things I needed answers to & the included instructions cover most of the things one needs to know to stay within the confines of the law. If you are reading this, stop thinking about which law firm to use. It is of the utmost importance to have a properly drafted NFA Gun Trust for the purpose of acquiring & manufacturing NFA items. After reading how my NFA Trust deals with the complexity of NFA laws, I quickly realized how many people have done themselves a disservice by using a computer program or uneducated law firm to draft their Trust for Title II items.
I even mentioned this to the local attorney who sent my Trust to me & he had this to say: "I know what you mean. I used to sell exactly the kind of trust you are talking about. I am so happy to be able to provide a higher quality of service nowadays."
Thank you Law Office of David M. Goldman PLLC. I now know who to recommend to anyone with a serious interest in NFA firearms.
Sincerely, Andrew C.
If you are looking to create a Gun Trust and want a Gun Trust Lawyer® to help create a customized Gun Trust or Multi-Generational Asset Protection Gun Trust Contact Us.
Closing arguments are about to happen for a trial of three men in Alaska. Schaeffer Cox and two others are charged with, among other crimes, possessing and making an unregistered silencer and possessing an unregistered machine gun.
Defense attorneys will argue Wednesday that their clients acted in self-defense as they took up arms to protect Cox at public appearances, including an interview at North Pole television and radio station KJNP.
Defense attorneys also will claim Wednesday that their clients were entrapped by the government's primary informer on the case, militia member Gerald "J.R." Olson, who agreed to work undercover in exchange for consideration on another criminal case.
Defense attorney Tim Dooley asserts that Olson brought up the subject of illegal weapons, "finagled" the defendants into placing an order and brought in samples -- three .22-caliber handguns with silencers and hand grenades -- that Cox and Barney were examining when they were busted.
Unfortunately there is no intent required in violating the NFA and simple possession or constructive possession is all that is required to violate the law. In addition to most the federal laws, many state have enhanced penalties for use of NFA firearms in the commission of a crime.
The NFA defines a transfer to include loaning and is not the same as most of us would think of regarding the transfer of property. Jury deliberation is expected to begin later this week.